I was 26 when I left Rajapalayam to live in Chennai,desperate to go, leaving behind a socially oppressive culture,where a woman was not to be seen or heard,her respectability was an easy virtue.she did not have to accomplish much,just be dumb and remain invisible,traveling in a horse drawn cart screened from view.A forward looking education majoring in western thought and literature had made me a stranger at home.So I fled but carried with me all that I wished to leave behind!Landed in a cauldron of assorted views and ways,not quite able to acclimatize , holding on to my identity,that I suddenly found very respectable.I trudged on neither here nor there,inevitably becoming different from either,choosing my affinity as was convenient.
30 yrs later,I returned to Rajapalayam,a liberated woman of mature years and much understanding of the world,eager to pass on the benefits of my exposure and liberate the still suffering sisterhood left behind!Only I did not find them.There were no horse drawn carts,nor even auto rickshaws with the screens hiding respectable women from vulgar view!Even as I roamed looking for independence,women had found theirs,quietly,without much ado,acquiring skills necessary for financial independence.They rode cycles,scooters,drove cars,ran small enterprises,travelled,learnt languages,their exposure evinced in their carriage and cuisine,the transformation so smooth that it didn't seem noticeable,the transformation achieved without a struggle for identity,without a confusion of cultures.Well!I have been humbled,no need here to trumpet my superior ways,to spread my world view and philosophy of life.Rajapalayam had changed even as I had marching in tune with the ways of the world,facing no threat to its identity.
AND Iam not really talking about myself or about Rajapalayam.I have in mind the global Indian who thinks the Indian Indian he left behind is a barbarian,who smells of coconut oil in his hair,the stink of curry in his clothes,abhorts girl babies ,burns brides and rapes women.If the white man spread an image of snake charmers ,the global Indian does a worse disservice to India.Another face to migration!A South Indian living in the north is wiser than his brother back home,a global Indian wherever he is ,whatever he does is infinitely superior to Indians in India,who are dirty rude crude!!
And this about a culture and civilisation that thrived before its western counterparts had learnt to brush their teeth or wash their bums!
AND We can no longer blame it on population or British occupation and rest easy.Two tasks to be done on war footing.Clean our streets and make our education relevant.Surely not impossibly difficult.
Thursday, 11 September 2014
Tuesday, 15 April 2014
Relating to events in Travancore
The last Venad ruler Rama Raja Verma 1721-1729met Ambika of Rajput origin from the North in Sucheendhrum temple,married and made her his queen,promising her family that her sons will be the future kings of Venadu.The identity of this lady is still only speculated,though she had come with a retinue,who settled along with her and married into kshathriya families already living in Kerala.Such a royal alliance cannot have happened in a casual meeting in a temple.It must have been a political alliance details of which the successor chose to wipe out from history.Venad kings and their cousins rulers of the many principalities of Southern Kerala,were themselves not kshathriya.They bought kshathriya hood every six years,through large donations to Brahmins weighed on thulabaram.It was the British who put an end to this drain from the treasury.
Ramaraja Verma faced continuous opposition from Ettuvittu Pillamar and depended on Madurai army for his protection.The ruler in Madurai was Vijaya Raghunatha Nayak,Rani Mangamma's grandson and the last ruler Meenakshi's husband,who had shifted his capital to Trichy.Ambika is supposed to have been from Tanjore!After Ramaraja verma's death,according to the traditional marumakkadayam,Marthanda Verma ascended the throne!Ambika's sons the thambimar sought help from Madurai Nayak in Trichy,who was too weak to protect him.After 300 yrs,Madurai became too weak to interfere with Venadu.Marthanda Verma used this opportunity for his military campaign,killed rivals to the throne,expanded his kingdom to found Travancore!Did Ambika 's followers flee to Rajapalayam? .Were they Telugu kshathriyas,who obtained the territory from Vijaya Raghunatha Nayak?
Marthanda Verma 1729-1758 is said to have retained the kshathriyas in his personal army,preferring them to the Nair forces.But for the first part of his reign,he was himself on the run hiding in jungles.Was this when Rajapalayam became an asylum?Ambika's followers are said to have married into already existing kshathriya families.The only kshathriya principality in Kerala was Meenachil, (of Sisodiya descent,from Madurai)which was also wiped out by Marthanda Verma.Did the fleeing Meenachil residents flee into Rajapalayam,through the passes in Peermedu and Kambam?I would say so, from a linguistic view point as the Intonation of Telugu spoken by Rajus has resemblance to Malayalam.
Rama Verma Dharma Raja1758-1798 consolidated his kingdom bought lands from Shencotta to Ambasamudhram.He is said to have been a dharmic ruler kind to the survivors of Meenachil.This is when the Palayams lost to the company.DharmaRaja forged agreements with East India Company,which his successor Balarama Verma1782-1810 further strengthened into a treaty.East India Company was not into this for fun and adventure.They wanted lands to yield revenue,and Rajus stepped into this vacuum patronised by the vermas and the company and ventured into agriculture,cultivating temple lands,land leased from the erstwhile Palayams and land grants on the ghats from the British and so on.Srivilliputtur Andal koil and perhaps many others were under the control of Travancore kings till 1850 s that is till the end of company rule.
This I believe is the when and how of Rajapalayam,that materialised from the fall of the Palayams.It has to be 200 yrs old,no more.
Ramaraja Verma faced continuous opposition from Ettuvittu Pillamar and depended on Madurai army for his protection.The ruler in Madurai was Vijaya Raghunatha Nayak,Rani Mangamma's grandson and the last ruler Meenakshi's husband,who had shifted his capital to Trichy.Ambika is supposed to have been from Tanjore!After Ramaraja verma's death,according to the traditional marumakkadayam,Marthanda Verma ascended the throne!Ambika's sons the thambimar sought help from Madurai Nayak in Trichy,who was too weak to protect him.After 300 yrs,Madurai became too weak to interfere with Venadu.Marthanda Verma used this opportunity for his military campaign,killed rivals to the throne,expanded his kingdom to found Travancore!Did Ambika 's followers flee to Rajapalayam? .Were they Telugu kshathriyas,who obtained the territory from Vijaya Raghunatha Nayak?
Marthanda Verma 1729-1758 is said to have retained the kshathriyas in his personal army,preferring them to the Nair forces.But for the first part of his reign,he was himself on the run hiding in jungles.Was this when Rajapalayam became an asylum?Ambika's followers are said to have married into already existing kshathriya families.The only kshathriya principality in Kerala was Meenachil, (of Sisodiya descent,from Madurai)which was also wiped out by Marthanda Verma.Did the fleeing Meenachil residents flee into Rajapalayam,through the passes in Peermedu and Kambam?I would say so, from a linguistic view point as the Intonation of Telugu spoken by Rajus has resemblance to Malayalam.
Rama Verma Dharma Raja1758-1798 consolidated his kingdom bought lands from Shencotta to Ambasamudhram.He is said to have been a dharmic ruler kind to the survivors of Meenachil.This is when the Palayams lost to the company.DharmaRaja forged agreements with East India Company,which his successor Balarama Verma1782-1810 further strengthened into a treaty.East India Company was not into this for fun and adventure.They wanted lands to yield revenue,and Rajus stepped into this vacuum patronised by the vermas and the company and ventured into agriculture,cultivating temple lands,land leased from the erstwhile Palayams and land grants on the ghats from the British and so on.Srivilliputtur Andal koil and perhaps many others were under the control of Travancore kings till 1850 s that is till the end of company rule.
This I believe is the when and how of Rajapalayam,that materialised from the fall of the Palayams.It has to be 200 yrs old,no more.
Yet another probability!
Names of places have a story to tell,as we have seen already.Our inti peru is none other than the name of a village we have left behind.It does not mean that we covered the distance from there to here at one go,in one life time.The migration must have taken a century or more,a few generations,with several sites chosen and abandoned,each movement determined by events conflicts and opportunities.With each movement,a trail is left behind,available for the historian to reconstruct the story.
(I am no historian trained to search and not be misled by false trails,sift select and document with proof from inscriptions,tales,folklore and literature.This is no more than a curious mind turning the soil in the net.Inputs and rebuttals are most welcome)
Back to the trails!There were several Rajapalayams,atleast 6 are still traceable.1.west of Cuddalore and north of Panruti.2.East of Thirupathur near Jolarpet west of Javvadhu hills 3.near Pattukkottai south of Mannargudi(telugu tamil fusion?temple of a king?Rajamannar or Rajagopalaswmi?)4.Between Salem and Thiruchengode5.south of Pondicherry 6.near Thuraiyur.Pages in history refer to some conflict sometime or the other in the neighbourhood. from the last days of Vijayanagar to the conficts between european colonies.
The Rajus who lived here,did they merge with the local population?Did they migrate from here,recruited to armies elsewhere?
In the southern extreme are villages bearing the names RajakkalMangalam,Kanjampatti,Kalingarajapuram,
all near kulachel,where Marthanda verma defeated the Dutch De lennoy.who later joined M.verma's army renovated Udhayagiri fort and lies buried there.The names are a throwback to coastal Andhra.On young Marthanda verma's advice,his uncle and predecessor,Ramaverma had a mercenary army recruited from Madurai and probably from Andhra,to face internal challenges from Ettuvittu Pillamars.This conflict intensified during Marthanda Verma's time,when Venadu transformed into Travancore,through several military campaigns.Did the Rajus serve in his army?Did their service boomerang on them?In the uncertain political scenario forces were grouping and regrouping,forming alliances with the merchant colonies,to sort out conflicts with neighbours!The French,the Dutch,The Portugese and the English were all players in Bobbili,Machilipatnam,Pondicherry,kulachel and Kollam fighting for control along the east and west coast for
their trade routes,fighting with'native'recruits.I am inclined to think Rajapalayam has its genesis here and not in Vijayanagar or in the Nayak rule,as it simply did not exist then,not even in the days of the Polyger wars.
All of this is the background in which we should look at two events that occurred in Travancore that just might hold the key to the origin of Rajapalayam.
.
(I am no historian trained to search and not be misled by false trails,sift select and document with proof from inscriptions,tales,folklore and literature.This is no more than a curious mind turning the soil in the net.Inputs and rebuttals are most welcome)
Back to the trails!There were several Rajapalayams,atleast 6 are still traceable.1.west of Cuddalore and north of Panruti.2.East of Thirupathur near Jolarpet west of Javvadhu hills 3.near Pattukkottai south of Mannargudi(telugu tamil fusion?temple of a king?Rajamannar or Rajagopalaswmi?)4.Between Salem and Thiruchengode5.south of Pondicherry 6.near Thuraiyur.Pages in history refer to some conflict sometime or the other in the neighbourhood. from the last days of Vijayanagar to the conficts between european colonies.
The Rajus who lived here,did they merge with the local population?Did they migrate from here,recruited to armies elsewhere?
In the southern extreme are villages bearing the names RajakkalMangalam,Kanjampatti,Kalingarajapuram,
all near kulachel,where Marthanda verma defeated the Dutch De lennoy.who later joined M.verma's army renovated Udhayagiri fort and lies buried there.The names are a throwback to coastal Andhra.On young Marthanda verma's advice,his uncle and predecessor,Ramaverma had a mercenary army recruited from Madurai and probably from Andhra,to face internal challenges from Ettuvittu Pillamars.This conflict intensified during Marthanda Verma's time,when Venadu transformed into Travancore,through several military campaigns.Did the Rajus serve in his army?Did their service boomerang on them?In the uncertain political scenario forces were grouping and regrouping,forming alliances with the merchant colonies,to sort out conflicts with neighbours!The French,the Dutch,The Portugese and the English were all players in Bobbili,Machilipatnam,Pondicherry,kulachel and Kollam fighting for control along the east and west coast for
their trade routes,fighting with'native'recruits.I am inclined to think Rajapalayam has its genesis here and not in Vijayanagar or in the Nayak rule,as it simply did not exist then,not even in the days of the Polyger wars.
All of this is the background in which we should look at two events that occurred in Travancore that just might hold the key to the origin of Rajapalayam.
.
Friday, 28 February 2014
A question for aspirants to Royalty
In the course of surfing the web to find the origin of Rajapalayam,I came across Bunts,Yadavs,Balijas,kammas,reddys,rajus and several others claiming royal roots!A few facts for their reflection!
Narasa's son Vira Narasimha Raya wanted his son to be king,and asked his minister Thimmarasu to murder his brother Krishna Deva Raya and bring his eyes as proof of the execution!
Thimmarasu produced goat's eyes instead and saved KD Raya,who later blinded him believing his hand behind the poisoning of his son!The Pusapati Gajapathis of Vizianagar are believed to have done it,as revenge for their own loss!Their princess Jaganmohini married to Krishna Deva Raya attempted to kill him to avenge the murder of her brother!
Thimmarasu spent his oldage begging in Thirupathi!A reward for a lifetime of loyal service to Vijayanagar!
Achyutha Raya's son and brother were murdered and he himself was held prisoner by his brother in law Salakam Thimmaraju,who went mad when he lost the battle for succession, blinded the royal elephants,cut off their tails in a rage,before killing himself.
Aliya Rama Raya held the last Thuluva emperor Sadasiva Raya in prison,and ruled as his regent.His brother Thirumala Raya executed him.
Jagga Raya massacred the entire royal family in Vellore!Every ascension to the throne was preceded by a bloodbath.Brother killing brother,cousins killing each other,uncle killing nephew,grandson killing grand parents!The same was the case in all the Nayak kingdoms and the Palayams.We only need to recall the gruesome murder of Rani Mangammal by her own grandson,whose regent she was,till the infant could grow into an adult.
I have this question for all the claimants to Royalty!Why would you want such criminal ancestry?A bigger brigand was a prince,a lesser one was a zamindar!What pride could you have in being distantly related to one,or belonging to the clan.!Removed by time,we are blinded by glamour,and fail to realise,all that bitter struggle was to lay hands on the revenue,collected from the farm labour who toiled.No different from the elections our politicians fight,only more gruesome!
Narasa's son Vira Narasimha Raya wanted his son to be king,and asked his minister Thimmarasu to murder his brother Krishna Deva Raya and bring his eyes as proof of the execution!
Thimmarasu produced goat's eyes instead and saved KD Raya,who later blinded him believing his hand behind the poisoning of his son!The Pusapati Gajapathis of Vizianagar are believed to have done it,as revenge for their own loss!Their princess Jaganmohini married to Krishna Deva Raya attempted to kill him to avenge the murder of her brother!
Thimmarasu spent his oldage begging in Thirupathi!A reward for a lifetime of loyal service to Vijayanagar!
Achyutha Raya's son and brother were murdered and he himself was held prisoner by his brother in law Salakam Thimmaraju,who went mad when he lost the battle for succession, blinded the royal elephants,cut off their tails in a rage,before killing himself.
Aliya Rama Raya held the last Thuluva emperor Sadasiva Raya in prison,and ruled as his regent.His brother Thirumala Raya executed him.
Jagga Raya massacred the entire royal family in Vellore!Every ascension to the throne was preceded by a bloodbath.Brother killing brother,cousins killing each other,uncle killing nephew,grandson killing grand parents!The same was the case in all the Nayak kingdoms and the Palayams.We only need to recall the gruesome murder of Rani Mangammal by her own grandson,whose regent she was,till the infant could grow into an adult.
I have this question for all the claimants to Royalty!Why would you want such criminal ancestry?A bigger brigand was a prince,a lesser one was a zamindar!What pride could you have in being distantly related to one,or belonging to the clan.!Removed by time,we are blinded by glamour,and fail to realise,all that bitter struggle was to lay hands on the revenue,collected from the farm labour who toiled.No different from the elections our politicians fight,only more gruesome!
A probable trace of the origin of Rajapalayam in the Marava country!
'The Rajus were sent to maintain law and order as commandants and administrators of the Vijayanagar empire!'(1600-1650).When and by whom from the empire can be verified from known conflicts in history.
The period is full of instances where commanders,governors and local chiefs time and again tried to declare their independence,and establish their own kingdoms,or expand their territory,if a neighbour became weak.Complaints reached Vijayanagar and an army was sent to resolve the issue!This is how the Tamil country came to be ruled by the Telugu people.
Nagama nayaka settled disputes among the Pandyas,and tried to become king himself!
His son Viswanatha Nayaka fought him and took him back!(1528)
Viswanatha Nayaka was a governor,or king?This is debated,as he came and went thrice!(1529-1563)
Sellappa said to be a corruption of Saluva Virasinga Raya father of sevappa of Tanjore tried to revolt,and when defeated fled to Travancore.
Achyutha Raya himself led an army to check Travancore's expansion!Salakam Thimmaraju fought this battle
and took sellappa and Travancore chief prisoners.(1530)
Aliya Rama Raya sent Vithala Rama Raya his cousin and four of his brothers to check Travancore and stop Portugese conversion of the coastal folk to Christianity.These five princes stayed in the region for 10 years.Vithala ruled in Madurai for 12 years.(1546-1558).This is a noticeable presence of Telugu kshathriya Rajus in Madurai,when Aliya Rama Raya was controlling affairs in Vijayanagar!
Was a miltary camp left behind by Salakam or Vithala ?Did a group of war weary kshathriya rajus decide to settle down to agriculture in an area familiar to them on the way to Travancore?
Did the nayaks offer an asylum to Jaggaraya and followers fleeing Vellore,after massacring the royal family?
Was the Jagga Raya faction sheltered by the Madurai nayaks,post Thoppur war?(1616)
Is this a probable trace of the origin of Rajapalayam?Or were they recruited by the east India company and Yussuf Khan in Vellore Arani and Pulicat region to fight in the Polyger wars?(1765 )One or many of these must hold the answer,as the Rajus are kshathriyas and have lived here for years in a tightly knit regiment fashion.A better than vague guess is due and just waiting to be found!
The period is full of instances where commanders,governors and local chiefs time and again tried to declare their independence,and establish their own kingdoms,or expand their territory,if a neighbour became weak.Complaints reached Vijayanagar and an army was sent to resolve the issue!This is how the Tamil country came to be ruled by the Telugu people.
Nagama nayaka settled disputes among the Pandyas,and tried to become king himself!
His son Viswanatha Nayaka fought him and took him back!(1528)
Viswanatha Nayaka was a governor,or king?This is debated,as he came and went thrice!(1529-1563)
Sellappa said to be a corruption of Saluva Virasinga Raya father of sevappa of Tanjore tried to revolt,and when defeated fled to Travancore.
Achyutha Raya himself led an army to check Travancore's expansion!Salakam Thimmaraju fought this battle
and took sellappa and Travancore chief prisoners.(1530)
Aliya Rama Raya sent Vithala Rama Raya his cousin and four of his brothers to check Travancore and stop Portugese conversion of the coastal folk to Christianity.These five princes stayed in the region for 10 years.Vithala ruled in Madurai for 12 years.(1546-1558).This is a noticeable presence of Telugu kshathriya Rajus in Madurai,when Aliya Rama Raya was controlling affairs in Vijayanagar!
Was a miltary camp left behind by Salakam or Vithala ?Did a group of war weary kshathriya rajus decide to settle down to agriculture in an area familiar to them on the way to Travancore?
Did the nayaks offer an asylum to Jaggaraya and followers fleeing Vellore,after massacring the royal family?
Was the Jagga Raya faction sheltered by the Madurai nayaks,post Thoppur war?(1616)
Is this a probable trace of the origin of Rajapalayam?Or were they recruited by the east India company and Yussuf Khan in Vellore Arani and Pulicat region to fight in the Polyger wars?(1765 )One or many of these must hold the answer,as the Rajus are kshathriyas and have lived here for years in a tightly knit regiment fashion.A better than vague guess is due and just waiting to be found!
Tuesday, 25 February 2014
Nethi!Nethi! Not This! Not This!
There is a version that Rajus first settled down in Keela Rajakularaman,found a dog being chased by a rabbit during one of their hunting trips,and relocated in Rajapalayam,as it was more in tune with their valour.
There is an ancient Ramar temple with a tank waiting for renovation in Keela Rajakularaman.There is a school in the residence of an erstwhile village head,the lands are fertile,there is an agraharam-all evidence of a once prosperous settlement,a few hundred years old.
BUT the settlers here were not kshathriya rajus of Rajapalayam,but another clan of telugu people called bhatt rajus,who relocated to Tanjore,after donating or selling their lands to the local brahmins.Bhat rajus were bards and chroniclers,and perhaps moved to Tanjore as political climate there was more conducive to their vocation.We do know that music and art thrived under the telugu nayaks of Tanjore!Probably they were loyal to Vijayanagar and preferred Tanjore that continued to be vassals of Vijayanagar,that had shifted its capital to Vellore.around 1623 after the Thoppur war ,predating Thrumalanayak
The story of a rabbit chasing a dog is told in many places ,as a favoured spot chosen by a reigning chieftain for the construction of a fort!Do rabbits chase dogs?They do!Young foolish dogs are puzzled by these hopping creatures and engage in a game of chasing and being chased!You Tube has several videos to show.
A land grant was said to have been given by Chokkanatha Nayak,-for services rendered,and more land was bought from Vijaya Ranga Chokkanatha Nayak.Perhaps so!The period is 1662-1731,with a glorious well-documented 15 year rule by Rani Mangammal.A former document writer is said to be in possession of copper plates to the effect.So,this can be verified!
BUT this is Madurai Nayak kingdom and not Vijaynagar empire!!The nayaks had declared their independence from Vijayanagar,and fought the royal family in the Thoppur war!Did the Rajus belong to the Jagga Raya faction,which massacred the royal family in Vellore?Was Chakka Raja kottai founded by him or perhaps by his followers?patronised by Thirumalai Nayak?given independent identity and settlement?
Services were rendered to Chokkanatha nayak,-in his battle for a bride with the Tanjore nayak?There was a constant struggle along the borders of the kingdom both during Chokkanatha and Vijaya Ranga Chokkanatha's time.Did they belong to the army in Madurai?or did they serve in the palayams nearby?
There is an underlying distaste in accepting that they served the nayaks or the palayams that maintained an army which was pressed into service in times of conflict internal or external.The Rajus don't admit to serving in a regular army or being mercenaries.They claim a direct link to Vijayanagar!Did Vijaynagar involve itself directly in the deep south?Yes it did!Were the Rajus left behind after such expeditions,as independent military camps,monitoring and reporting to Vijayanagar directly,bypassing the palayams and the Nayaks?That would pre date 1600-1650 claimed by Rajus as their origin by a century or more!!
More questions than answers as usual!BUT worth exploring!
There is an ancient Ramar temple with a tank waiting for renovation in Keela Rajakularaman.There is a school in the residence of an erstwhile village head,the lands are fertile,there is an agraharam-all evidence of a once prosperous settlement,a few hundred years old.
BUT the settlers here were not kshathriya rajus of Rajapalayam,but another clan of telugu people called bhatt rajus,who relocated to Tanjore,after donating or selling their lands to the local brahmins.Bhat rajus were bards and chroniclers,and perhaps moved to Tanjore as political climate there was more conducive to their vocation.We do know that music and art thrived under the telugu nayaks of Tanjore!Probably they were loyal to Vijayanagar and preferred Tanjore that continued to be vassals of Vijayanagar,that had shifted its capital to Vellore.around 1623 after the Thoppur war ,predating Thrumalanayak
The story of a rabbit chasing a dog is told in many places ,as a favoured spot chosen by a reigning chieftain for the construction of a fort!Do rabbits chase dogs?They do!Young foolish dogs are puzzled by these hopping creatures and engage in a game of chasing and being chased!You Tube has several videos to show.
A land grant was said to have been given by Chokkanatha Nayak,-for services rendered,and more land was bought from Vijaya Ranga Chokkanatha Nayak.Perhaps so!The period is 1662-1731,with a glorious well-documented 15 year rule by Rani Mangammal.A former document writer is said to be in possession of copper plates to the effect.So,this can be verified!
BUT this is Madurai Nayak kingdom and not Vijaynagar empire!!The nayaks had declared their independence from Vijayanagar,and fought the royal family in the Thoppur war!Did the Rajus belong to the Jagga Raya faction,which massacred the royal family in Vellore?Was Chakka Raja kottai founded by him or perhaps by his followers?patronised by Thirumalai Nayak?given independent identity and settlement?
Services were rendered to Chokkanatha nayak,-in his battle for a bride with the Tanjore nayak?There was a constant struggle along the borders of the kingdom both during Chokkanatha and Vijaya Ranga Chokkanatha's time.Did they belong to the army in Madurai?or did they serve in the palayams nearby?
There is an underlying distaste in accepting that they served the nayaks or the palayams that maintained an army which was pressed into service in times of conflict internal or external.The Rajus don't admit to serving in a regular army or being mercenaries.They claim a direct link to Vijayanagar!Did Vijaynagar involve itself directly in the deep south?Yes it did!Were the Rajus left behind after such expeditions,as independent military camps,monitoring and reporting to Vijayanagar directly,bypassing the palayams and the Nayaks?That would pre date 1600-1650 claimed by Rajus as their origin by a century or more!!
More questions than answers as usual!BUT worth exploring!
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